Do you value taste over life?

how can someone use so many words, yet say so little? who are you even talking to? your text is based on nothing but assumptions when you dont even know what i was going to say. im glad youre back.

San_Ichiban wrote: how can someone use so many words, yet say so little? who are you even talking to? your text is based on nothing but assumptions when you dont even know what i was going to say. im glad youre back.

I was talking to the only one who called me ignorant..The other person, the OP did not call me ignorant and respected my opinion..

Chlotoro wrote: We may not be able to save every animal from harm but we can definitely reduce the amount of suffering.
Yes small animals and insects are killed when crops are harvested but again it's about the intention and reducing the amount of animals being slaughtered.

As for worrying about food waste and people starving take into account that most crops grown are actually used to feed livestock, if we didnt have as much livestock to feed then we could use the food from those crops to feed those that are currently going without. Obviously this isn't something we can change overnight but we can start making changes now and overtime if more people go vegan then gradually there will be less demand for meat products and in turn less livestock will be bred so we'll be able to use crops and the space we use for livestock to grow even more food for the majority of the population. On top of that animals will be able to go back to living the way they did before we intervened and started genetically modifying them.

Thanks for your input, you brought up some interesting points

Thats a good point, just how to get people to actually listen? This has been a way of life for many and so people might lash out..I mean there are alternatives to everything .Just having things the way they have been for so long its hard to change everything..I dislike the fact chickens are caged and beaks cut off and treated badly, thus salmonella egg recalls and stuff .Just i think a lot of cattle farmers get desperate.It might help if governments found solutions, most places are getting greedy though and so they dont care how the animals are treated and just want the money..As for cows its also sad that their calves are taken for the milk and thrown away..It is a disgusting practice as of pigs to..Sadly i do not see very many solutions..Even if they had stronger rules or even forbid livestock, there will still be those doing it under the table..It is a problem and i think for those telling people to just not eat meat? I dont think it will work very well..People usually, even when informed, get comfortable with what they know..Also I usually find meat too expensive to want to buy it and eat it..I do not need to eat animals, there are many alternatives..Just unless i have a good vitamin and mineral regimine, and have the time and help to become Vegan? Lifestyle sometimes does not permit it..There are people who think being Vegan or vegitarian is just eating fruits, veggies and grains..Its more than that though..But for most they are not informed of how to do it correctly, where they dont get sick..Eating too much or too little of something can also get people sick..Most dont have proper knowledge to live those lifestyles on a daily basis, or the time or food knowldege..I have kids and so i dont have time or energy to think of everything..I am not an expert on food..I do what i can and in moderation..All i know is if i worked in a restraunt that had all meat products and meat in them, if a Vegan or Vegitarian came and ordered Meat free? I would try my best to respect that and see if there was a way to make stuff animal or meat free..

There's now way to be 100% perfect obviously but can't we all agree there are things we can all do that would make a difference even if it doesn't make an immediate change it's better than doing nothing.

No one said that anyone's better than anyone else and I'm sure you do things to contribute but everyone can do more. Signing petitions is great and all but having discussions like is also another great way to spread awareness. The whole point of this thread was to see everyone's opinions and maybe even get people to think about this topic in another way as most people are desensitized or just think it's the way it is so what's the point if they eat animal products or not.
Let's face it If this was about humans being mistreated everyone would be outraged but because it's animals "It's just the way the world is"

Chlotoro wrote: There's now way to be 100% perfect obviously but can't we all agree there are things we can all do that would make a difference even if it doesn't make an immediate change it's better than doing nothing.

No one said that anyone's better than anyone else and I'm sure you do things to contribute but everyone can do more. Signing petitions is great and all but having discussions like is also another great way to spread awareness. The whole point of this thread was to see everyone's opinions and maybe even get people to think about this topic in another way as most people are desensitized or just think it's the way it is so what's the point if they eat animal products or not.
Let's face it If this was about humans being mistreated everyone would be outraged but because it's animals "It's just the way the world is"

True,Animals are treated differently..I did not say i support their mistreatment, but when i say i do eat animals and say i do not feel guilty, some take it personally as if i support it..No, I actually dont but i dont have the answers or solutions and so..Someone to judge me and call me ignorant because i dont act like them or think like them, is rude..Also i do not support animal testing or animal abuse but it does happen..Most are not aware..But unless people make Vegan and animal free products and shown a different way, most say, whats the use? Theres nothing else for them in their minds..In Germany there are some Vegan products, but not everyone has them in other places or knows of them..Also even if they are vegan there is no guarentee to safety..I think people should make more products that are animal friendly and inform others, but not impose their way of living.It is complicated..

I have always respected other peoples ways of living to the best of my ability..I have Vegan friends, one actually lived with me awhile..She respected my way of living and i respected hers..We might have ate differently but did not stop us being friends..

PhantomsExist wrote:

San_Ichiban wrote: how can someone use so many words, yet say so little? who are you even talking to? your text is based on nothing but assumptions when you dont even know what i was going to say. im glad youre back.

I was talking to the only one who called me ignorant..The other person, the OP did not call me ignorant and respected my opinion..

theres a difference between having an opinion and talking nonsense that is based on false information. and this is a thread about animal suffering and not a platform for yet another of your self-representations where you mix in all kinds of your topics that have nothing to do with the original post. yes, you are ignorant and i will say this again and again until you let me explain and i said i will explain later, but you just dont stop replying to something that isnt even there. its called ecosystem, not ego-system, krystal. and trust me when i say i will dissect each and every one of your sentences, even though it isnt even worth it, because one cannot objectively discuss with people like you. and to each their own, im not a militant vegan who will judge one on what theyre eating. eat whatever you want. its just that you declare some nonsense the truth, because you want to believe it and you dont even understand why im calling you ignorant. see you later.

I think the best way to get people to listen is to have discussions like this and show them the facts, not just about the ethical reasoning but also the enviroo and health sides of it too.
For those that don't want to give up meat for the taste or nutrition companies are constantly coming out with better meat alternatives and some even working on lab meat so that in the future those that want to eat meat would be able to do so without animals having to be slaughtered.

Honestly with all farming it will be just changing with the times and switching to farming gains, fruit and veggies, some dairy companies are already starting this by producing dairy free alternatives.
The government is a massive problem because they subsidise dairy and meat farmers which is why meat and milk is so cheap but that being said the government is always one step behind of everything so once they see that the public are changing they won't have a choice but to instead subsidise plant based farmers.

Yeah the majority is desensitized so we need to start building that relationship with animals again, personally I think the best way to do this is to educate children about what happens before they think it's the norm.

There's plenty of resources if you need help with nutrition and if you want feel free to message me and I'll try answer any questions you have. It's not as difficult as people think it is just as long as you are eating mainly a wholefood diet, eating plenty of dark leafy greens, veggies, fruit, nuts, beans, things like chia and hemp seeds for omega 3 and a vegan multivitamin you'll be fine. I highly suggest checking out healthy crazy cool on youtube for hell with nutrition.

i love your thoughts and maturity on this topic, chlotoro!

No judgement here, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
Yeah unfortunately vegan products aren't always accessable but it is getting better and you can always order things online.

Chlotoro wrote: No judgement here, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
Yeah unfortunately vegan products aren't always accessable but it is getting better and you can always order things online.

Yeah, One of my friends who is Vegan told me that Germany is one of the most Vegan friendly places..She even took some snacks to bring home..As in the US, they dont have luxeries from ordering everything online or getting Vegan products in stores..I was surprised to, when i came to Europe..There is more products available for people with special diets..Soy and Rice milk and Coconut milk are ones i use often..As again im not for Animal abuse and so I do buy other animal friendly things when im able..

I think Europe in general is more friendly as of animals and people, though not always..Just a different way of living.