are you a republican or democrat(liberals)

conservative.

im not from the US, but id vote for anarchy ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

chan2417 wrote:

thenuge88 wrote: You're from HK, but you are wanting policies similar to that of China? Aren't you guys protesting China right now?

Not hong konger. Chinese mainland citizen.

China gov is effective but flawed. I don't think any government out there is perfect. A human right is to expect your country to give you a good life, a safer one and meaningful. A human right is also to voice your opinions and protest. But ultimately it's not that straightforward to always have max both in every place.

My dad was one of the student protesters at 89. He was young and the protest did not happen the way the west media described it. It's just black information for the impressionable who don't do their research. And a smear campaign that only relies on ignorance.

Birth of a Massacre Myth - Japan Times

Regardless that was China back then. My dad has changed his perspective as he witnessed the changes in the last 3 decades.

Hong kong protesters are just people who think mass democracy is better than a state meritocracy. They point at the macau hk zuhai bridge and call it a white elephant. I point at it and call it a  step forward for an innovation economy of greater bay area.

China Is Building The World's Largest Innovation Economy

The problem is that the system that hk protesters want conflict with what mainlanders want and only one can be the primary. 


~

And what communist country did you flee?

Seems some westerners like you, still think china is legitimately full communist. It makes me realise they curse communism yet don't even know the full definition. Or know that legit communism never existed in the entire history of man. 

Don't forget china was once a democracy and unbridled capitalist. The masses were angry at that system, overthrew it and created one that origjnated to grow china's middle class population and communism was initially flirted with. Hence the name of gov but in reality, china was never and will never become communist. We follow a few points  from the manifesto like free state education, progressive tax, state owned transport, etc but that communist end goal has long been trashed.

China is a socialist democracy where we have 80 million politicians who have family and friends with the masses. We don't have a 1.4 billion democracy. We have 80 million strong democracy who wants to make china a good place to live and be proud of. You're an american and i am sure you want the same for your country. But i know what american democracy is and not impressed.

My parents fled Vietnam.

You like bigger government which means less power to the individual, because government controls things. I want a smaller government, less politicians and and more individual rights.

You're not impressed with American democracy, that's great because we're a constitutional republic. I enjoy my freedom of speech, press, expression, religious freedom , my right to bear arms. I enjoy my individual right, you want the government to have control. That's the difference.

@thenuge88

You just don't get it...Just so you know i don't hate democracy. I just think it's overrated.

Democracy is good when you have few people, and global economics is less relevant or very simple. Like frontier america. But in a modern globally competative world with larger population and more complex problems, mass democracy is not perfect..You share it with many uneducated people in america and it cripples the west gov in being able to have a solid incentive system for higher order and long term imperatives.

5 facts you need to understand the new global order

To have a poor 1 billion plus population in a large country,  to choose national policies intelligently is not feasible. You miss out on the higher order planning. A meritocracy of economists, scientists, educated professionals who understand global economy intimatelty are able to make better policies in that respect.

How do you ever expect a 1 billion population plus to have the same insight and understanding of global macroeconomics? Even the richer western majority lack that far insight. Their own average college student is not able to know what foriegn reserves, artificial intelligence or even win the silly debate on why uneducated climate change deniers should not have a voice over scientists. That’s why they are stagnating and america middle class is dropping whilst china’s middle class is rising quickly.




The democracy in the west is in its foundation, all about self interests. Corporate big oil lobbies against high speed rail, that backs politicians with no sciemce degrees but are climate change deniers. And democracy is shared with bigots, the impressionable, climate change deniers, republicans and liberals constantly fighting it out. And not happy whenever the other side wins. Everyone votes for their own narrow self interests which is low level and lacks long term planning or respect to the budget. Politicians typically make big promises to mass rednecks like bringing back the coal industry, to win popularity and they generally overstretch the budget to back the numerous big campaign winning promises.

Now imagine a poor country that is still developing but instead of having the educated people decide and study the national policies. They are drowned out by irrationality, emotions, lack of understanding/education to choose policies. It will be a hot mess that is unlikely to satisfy like at least 500 million who lost to the 900 million over a politician who made a big promise that he may have no idea or professional expertise to keep but can just talk big.. Riots and protests break out and unlikely the most intelligent policy is chosen.


Those candidates campaigns are commonly paid by corporates. And what a capitalist system narrowly cares about is naturally immediate profits at the expense of everyone else, at the expense of their own people. A socialist system is capable of planning in the long term and puts its own people above profits. That is important.

And when i say socialism. I don't mean a country should be full socialist. Just not to neglect it. When your taxes are used to pay for your military, schools, healthcare, infrastructure, park services, etc ~ that's pure socialism. Everyone wants to live better lives with improvements in lifestyle, infrastructure, facilities, public transport, etc but some of these things may not net highest profit margin and the only body invested enough to not care sheerly about profits are the gov. So a balance of capitalism and socialism is always needed and should be emphasised. Otherwise you have no high speed rail, crumbling unrepaired infrastructure, the rich just gets richer as the poor gets disadvantaged and even poorer.  And Trickle down economics never worked in america as rich people just put their money in tax havens and not invest it in the public projects. So i do see value in democratic socialism to transcend that.

Forget China – it's America's own economic system that's broken

@chan2417

You're citing such liberal sources that are anti free market and bias. No the US economy is not perfect nor it's government. When you say "uneducated" people are they those who didn't go to school? Those who didn't get a college degree? If so you're sadly mistaken school doesn't make anyone any more or less smart or less qualified.

You think democracy is over rated because you want the government to choose who gets what and how it gets done.

"A meritocracy of economists, scientists, educated professionals who understand global economy intimately are able to make better policies in that respect" kinda funny we have a bunch if these Yale, Harvard etc educated elected officials...and we still have problems... No, your logic doesn't work. Having a degree doesn't promise anything better.

The reason why China's middle class is more educated is because they actually teach sht in school. In the states? You can major in Lesbian dance therapy, Feminism, etc and all these pseudo social issues that arise.

I have a nephew who almost went to Brown for the summer. They wanted to teach about white privilege, gender studies and LGTQ history. While the rest of the world is teaching computer coding, focusing on Physics, Quantum mechanics, Bio engineering etc therefore proving a higher education does not mean sh't. I know a high school drop out who is making $200,000. My parents and family are business owners...they do very very well...with no degree. But those politicians with degrees wanna tax the crap out of my hard working immigrant family...in the name of socialism. How is that fair? We came here with nothing, but the government wants to take everything.

Oh god climate change. When I was younger I believe in global warming, don't get me wrong I don't think we should pollute the environment. With that being said. They said we were gonna be in the ice ages in the 80's, the world was going to end in the 00's, then global warming, and now climate change.

You cannot predict the climate. If the average temp is higher for the year it's "global warming"...If the average temp is lower for the year it's still "Global warming" So how do we know if there is no baseline...weather is not a linear, It doesn't consistently repeats itself exactly the same year after year, some years are hotter some years are cooler.

How do you sit there and talk about self interest and talk about wanting a bigger government it baffles me. Big corps, back up politicians to their agenda...yet you want MORE government...then you complain about corruption... Here's a secret, smaller government and no lobbying is probably the answer. California had billions and billions invested into their 'high speed rail" granted by the government... it's be like 5 years and nothing...and the money? Unaccounted for...

Rednecks and coal? Oh yeah you're liberal. When we banned coal mining many rural cities were striped of their economy. People lost their jobs and homes, thousands of people went onto welfare. Coal is not the cleanest source of energy...even tho China burns is like crazy....weird... Maybe different parts of the States have different resources and produce different things? Like Cali which is heavily tech vs Idaho which is more agriculture. You can't demolish an entire industry and expect people who have been digging coal for decades to become and computer engineer. But those damn rednecks!!! right?

Negative, How does capitalism only help the few and hurt the rest? If that were true then Capitalism wouldn't work...because money wouldn't circulate, but please explain to be how socialism is better and how it produces money and products. (Hint: it doesn't create goods just takes people's money, because without capitalism...socialism is just....communism)

Trickle down economics? Yeah, another liberal taking point. Again my family came here as poor immigrants. We are doing better then a high majority of Americans. Here's a tip personal accountability and taking risk made my family successful, not begging the government for socialism.

I used to be very liberal. Highly advise you look at different points of view.

Neither. Libertarian waiting for the big igloo to start

@thenuge88

And you talk similarly to a stubborn flat earther.

You value critical thinking. Ask yourself this. How does a flat earther be so convinced that scientists are wrong and he knows better than them, despite he’s no scientist?

All he has to do is say others which includes the world’s scientific bodies as wrong or corrupt and he is right. How do you argue with that?

Except in your case, you call it "liberal media". Despite it's actuallly global scientific consensus and hard data that backs climate change.



Also i thought it was too obvious. America coal plants are mostly outdated and have limited lifespans. Many will be retired in only a few years. Additionally america is lucky enough to have a large reserve of natural gas. And new gas plants are both cheaper to build plus coal just cannot outcompete natural gas prices as gas is much cheaper.

Coal industry is on borrowed time and there is no feasible way it can survive for long given those factors. Trump is only holding back the inevitable. Instead of focusing on a wise transition plan from coal to gas, he is setting those desperate coal.miners up for shock dissapointment down the road.

The funny thing is ALL of your economists agree that there is no economic future for coal and trump can't stop that. But his voters somehow did not get that memo. Which proves my whole point about limits of democracy.

America coal industry is already dead because they have plenty of natural gas. The gas power is cheaper than coal and so they can afford to end coal.


China does not have vast natural gas reserves and so they are dependant on coal until they have developed enough renewable and nuclear to phase coal out completely. That is understandable and the vox article wrote about that indepth.

By 2020, every Chinese coal plant will be more efficient than every US coal plant

You will understand that china doesn’t even want to keep using coal as it gives them a lot of troubles. They want to build up renewables and nuclear capacity to replace coal ASAP but they also have to be realistic about the transition.

"In Paris, China pledged to develop 800 to 1,000 gigawatts of new renewable energy capacity by 2030 — the equivalent of the ENTIRE US electricity system. Even if it achieves that, it still won’t be nearly enough to replace coal."


www.americanprogress...al-china-wrong/

Additionally China developed the world’s cleanest coal power plant. It reduces pollution greatly for the same power so at least the largest coal burner is also the tech developer of the world’s best cleanest coal plant.

Its developer Professor Feng, has been likened with Thomas Edison by your American Society of Mechanical Engineers. And i cite western sources only because you can't read chinese news.


China's Thomas Edison – the man making dirty coal cleaner

And no country is pure capitalist, or pure socialism. All countries are a mix. You seem to think china is a pure socialist state. Socialist state is merely a self given title. All socialist countries have capitalism and private sectors. The socialist core planner is what looks out for the long term and big picture.

Ie. China knows that AI and green energy without petrol, is the future. So they develop 5g tech, internet of things, electric buses, charging stations infrastructure, autonomous cars and drones, blockchain, research in renewables and thorium power reactors, etc and plans for the inevitable transition.

And that's what gives them the edge.

AI could bring a fresh surge in China's economic growth, outpacing the US -- partly because Beijing is 'so concerned about social stability'


Meanwhile Trump does not even listen to his economists but he is the one voted to have power. He should help the dying coal industry to transition but he's not. And when coal plants finally retire, and coal prices due to BASIC ECONOMICS, can't compete with gas prices. It's going to die anyways.

China woud have made a transition plan and such transition plans are funded by socialism, not corporates. As there is not much profit to be made from transitions but they are ultimately necessary. And hence only socialist bodies would both plan and fund that.

i'm for whoever decreases my taxes (and whatever obligatory expenses) and increases my wages...

i watch both CNN and FOX NEWs. they got some babes on FOX.

Neither

this is a hotter topic than i originally thought, i know there is a mentality for alot of asian guys whos parents left china or another supressive regime country, so the thought that usa becoming more socialist sounds counter intuitive since their parents just escaped from such situation.

having said that, the world is changing, and the world is watching on what is going on in the state side, lately there been so much drama that one might think they accidentally turned on mtv reality show whilst watching the news.